Cancun and the Chinese perspective on it

Cancun will be a very low-key affair. The attendees going there expect to achieve exactly nothing. I’ll repeat that; exactly nothing. At Copenhagen the Chinese, under extreme and unremitting pressure, agreed to nothing. The Chinese signed nothing, not even the closing statement. The Chinese ‘noted’ that some statement had been made. That’s it. That was all they did and well after the circus had left town. Cancun will be lucky to get even that from them.

Politically, the situation is not good for the AGW cause and indeed has deteriorated dramatically in the last year. What has not changed are the imperatives driving the developing nations and China will again act as their spokesman, as it did in Copenhagen. The developing nations will not halt industrialisation no matter how much money they are offered by the developed nations and for two very good reasons. Firstly, they need to ‘power up’ their countries by building electricity generation facilities and secondly, they know the West is in economic intensive care; it simply doesn’t have the money to give them, if it ever had. In too many cases, what little money the developing world has already received was simply subtracted from the donors’ foreign aid budgets anyway.

What has changed is that with the recession, times are hard and people in the developed nations are starting to hurt. They care now about their jobs and putting food on the table. If that has to be roast Polar bear, then there will not be much heart searching. The concerns of the electorates are now much more immediate and focused about today and not some nebulous and distant threat to future generations.

Essentially, the people no longer believe or care about Climate Change; it’s had its fifteen minutes and its high priests are all too painfully aware of it. Politicians have already noticed this change in sentiment and are using it to get themselves elected. Suddenly it’s hip to be square. It’s Democracy in action. Though not the whole story, the Republican candidates in the mid-terms recognised this trend, repositioned themselves accordingly and reaped the reward; elected to office and control of the House. Being publically anti AGW is now seen as a vote winner and a pro AGW stance as a distinct electoral liability. Where America leads, the world will eventually follow but at a sedate pace, I fear. Politicians do not like being associated with failure, so I would be surprised to see any politician of note attend Cancun except possibly a few true believers.

As a result of what’s euphemistically known as ‘Climate Fatigue’, the MSM is repositioning itself too. This isn’t being done as an overnight one eighty degree turn but rather as a period of deafening silence on topics of Global Warming followed by a gradual turn, when the populace has had time to forget the MSM’s previous alarmist headlines. The paucity in the coverage of Cancun attests to that. I think a lot of environment journalists are going to be looking for new jobs in the near future. Given their quality, Journalism’s gain will, I suspect, be offset by the PR industry’s loss.

As usual, the smart money was the first to withdraw and that process was largely complete by the end of the first quarter of this year. The old adage applies; money talks and bullshit walks and if there was any lingering doubt that the moneymen had long ago abandoned any hope of making a profit out of the hysteria, the recent closure of the Chicago Climate Exchange should have dispelled it. Given Mr. Gore’s heavy investment in it, I’m sure his personal fortune, which reportedly ballooned from one million dollars to a hundred million in a decade, is now sorely diminished. The BBC pension fund, which is also heavily invested in green industries, will also be nursing heavy losses. Again, an old saying applies; invest with your head and not your heart.

There has also been another and more subtle change which, though small and not that apparent at the moment, is significant. The more thoughtful elements of the environmental movement (yes, they do exist) have realised not only that the alarmist strategies still being applied are not working but also that elements of their agenda are fundamentally flawed. Wind and solar power simply cannot supply the demand for electricity in the developing nations and the unthinkable is now being considered; coal and nuclear power. The brutal lesson of Copenhagen has sunk in. Any move to stop the industrialisation of the developing nations will always be blocked by the developing nations themselves. To put it more pointedly, the developing nations see the environmental movement with their current agenda, as an enemy of their aspiration to improve the lot of their people. Adding to the movement’s woes, is the nagging fear that any attempt to fundamentally revise the unacceptable agenda ie include coal and nuclear options, will result in violent schisms within the movement itself.

The Chinese delegation to Cancun are well aware of all the above and will act accordingly. Anything they are offered on a “no strings” basis will be accepted but they will concede exactly nothing.

© Pointman

44 thoughts on “Cancun and the Chinese perspective on it

  1. Yes – hopefully you are right and the Chinese will put the final nail in the coffin and kibosh Cancun.
    It will be interesting to see who attends, leaders or only “representatives”.

    • Good to see you Mel.

      I share your hope that the Chinese will indeed hammer the final nail in. As to who’s attending, I really can’t find any comprehensive data beyond government speak. The MSM coverage is very low-key, as I said.

      Pointman

  2. Pointman

    As Locusts’ translations have shown, the Third World cannot understand why their own natural resources of coal/gas/oil are denied them and they are being forced to use expensive and inefficient solar/wind which Europe wants to sell to them, increasing their indebtedness and further delaying their development and prosperity.

    So much Western Foreign Aid is channeled into buying Western technology that it is looking more and more like a monumental churn of Western taxpayers’ cash, straight into the pockets of the Industrialists who manufacture the wind-toys and PV solar panels.

    The Carbon Lie/Scam has to be exposed once and for all. Let’s hope Cancun will light its funeral pyre.

  3. Pointman

    Thank you for your words of wisdom.
    I hope that you are correct and that Cancun is nothing more than a holiday in the sun for a bunch of true believers.
    My fear is that the deals have been done ahead of time.

    Greed and sleaze
    Dealt under the table
    Mexican stand off
    All ready disabled

    Will there be any reporting on the proceedings in the MSM?

    NoIdea

  4. Orkney, Swan, Fen & NI, thank you for your kind words. Eighty percent of humanity live in the developing world and appear to have not much of a say in the developed nation’s and the environmental movement’s intention of keeping them unspoilt (ie in poverty, but of course for only the best possible reasons).

    Anything we can do to rub the movement’s nose in the poverty, death and misery they’re trying to preserve as a status quo will rack up some big brownie points for us when we arrive at the Pearly Gates. Don’t forget to take your Roller Skates off though …

    Pointman

  5. Actually Mel, the spin on this blog is certainly on things Chinese so I think it’s the perfect place really. The Chinese do have a potent cyber war capability from what I’ve heard. Being able to divert internet 15% of the worlds internet traffic for 18 minutes appears ominous or maybe not. By showing they can do it, they’ve tipped their hand.

    Pointman

  6. Morning all

    Great post pointman and good interaction

    The Mel comment about China diverting the internet seemsto have hit the MSM and BBC, and the government, military etc. seem to be in a panic.

    They, the computer freaks, to not have the tools or the controls to stop such things happening again.

    Note those who wish bad things have most to lose.

    The truth is a best antidote for the evil around us

  7. As usual, much may depend on what bureaucrats try and slip into later legislation, determined by what they agree amongst themselves around this Cancun jolly. The sidestep for the proposed EU Constitution that ended up being the Lisbon Treaty, should be warning enough to us all.

    On ‘Internet Security’, hopefully recent events are warning to us all about the vulnerabilities it would be all to easy to impose upon ourselves, with such idiocies as ‘Smart Meters’ and ‘Smart ID Cards’.

    Such things can all too easily blow up in people’s faces, doing massive damage in the process.

  8. Oooops first line went in as a website address – must get new glasses, lol!

    It was compliments on a nice post Pointman.🙂

  9. I’m sure i read somewhere recently that Gore’s investment company had sold their part of the carbon exchange earlier this year netting about 95million dollars for a 1 million dollar start up loan… so not sure if his personal fortune has taken a dive…

      • Hi Pointman, long time no talk, well done, good post, quite right the unravelling continues at a pace. The next two weeks will be interesting indeed. The incumbents are working very hard on the 2010 will be the “hottest ever” meme, I get the feeling that somebody may have been down the massage parlour?

        Being an old fart I need a bit of help, how do I post an excel chart to you here? I have been watching something that could be interesting. Either that or send me an email, blog has mine and I will explain.

        By the way have you and MoM got septic knuckles yet? Knocked on a lot of blog doors. Well done, always liked somebody prepared to cold call. LOL.

        Keep up the good work!

  10. I also do not think the Red Chinese want to play the Developing Country Game, which is just a variation of Uncle George (the developing world) threatening Spanky and the Little Rascals (the West) with retribution and terror and revolution if the West does not provide for the needs of the developing world. Chinese like to pay their own bills under their own steam from their own labours, not shake people down for handouts. I think the Red Chinese find the velvet painting of the big-eyed puppy of the Developing World the most nauseating artwork ever composed by humankind.

  11. I therefore believe the above is the reason the Chinese do not buy into global warming. The entire scheme the Red Chinese find to be ethically repellent, possessed as it is of the same cachet and modus operandi which the warlords of old forced onto the Chinese peasants in order to cheat them out of their earnings.

  12. Hello all,

    To start off with, I was sad to learn of the troubles at LG, but I am quite pleased that so many of you are here and contributing. The posts by the Great O’Bear, Swan, and Pointman have been very informative. Of course Locusts posts are always of great interest to me. Please keep up the translations of “Low Carbon Plot” and any other books of interest, and especially keep us informed of current events such as the protest/riot.
    I wanted to comment on that, but I suffer from lack of time and too many distractions, and then too much time has passed. I noted two (for me) alarming things from that post, things that I hope our “leaders” are aware of. First, a lot has changed since Tjienamin (sp?) Square. In one generation the youth of China has gone from freedom desiring rebels to tools of the government. Second, they don’t consider Japan part of Asia. We always considered Japan our Asian “buffer”. These both have serious implications to policy.

    I have been trying to get into the heads of our “leaders” (it’s dark and scary in there) and I wonder if they think the way to get out of paying the enormous we owe China is to get them to start a war. They are already spinning China’s freezing of rare earth exports and refusal to comply with AGW idiocy as hostile acts. Neither side is really concerned with their people or the developing world, just their own megalomania and moving people around like chessmen. Our Celebutante-in-Chief is not up to the task and may well be out maneuvered. The same for the UN bullies.

    Thank you all for your valuable contributions.

    Good night
    T.

  13. A good post Pointy,

    As ever my friend and beautifully ‘couched’.

    And here’s my two-penneth:

    We, the cognoscenti (the realists) smelled the stinking and rotten carcass known as, AGW (BS) long ago and where leaders go, the rest, will eventually follow.
    The realists War was not with the people (Joe Public), it was with the dissemblers (spin merchants).
    The quasi/post normal scientists and the instigators of this most political of fictions, the politicians themselves.

    Thus, our biggest foe (logically), is the commission of Brussels and the nomenklatura in and of the EU, we must try to not let them have ‘free rein’ in Cancun.

    We can rant and rail at, ‘cave in Dave’ and at the madness and futility of Huhne’s wind farms etc but in the end they (The Axis, Nu liebour – the whole Westminster claque) are merely implementing the policies and objectives of their puppet masters, who are of course, Qui sont-ils résider dans leur palais doré à Bruxelles.

    The big allies and who work hand in glove with the Commission in Brussels are the big European banks.

    Not for nothing, are the Irish being dragged kicking and screaming and clamped into their ‘iron maiden’….why? Because the big European banks are heavily exposed to Irish banking debt, particularly the French and German banks. The big banks love the EU, lots of lovely markets for their products, a vast market of ants to exploit to their hearts content, our card has been marked by the Big Euro banks for decades.

    So, to the Euro, this must be defended at all costs.

    The idea of economic union was always the plan of the founders of the EU, Monet and schuman et al. The idea to bring everybody into the Euro-zone was the first step, the bankers of course loved it, so much the easier to exploit the serfs of Europe (us) and easier (far easier) for trade blah, blah.
    That was the idea but bankers can only see the bottom line and the EU commission cannot see further than the backhanders they receive from the bankers, therefore the Euro-zone (thank God!) was doomed from the start.

    Economic Union? What a joke!
    Long ago it would have fallen apart (and it will) but for some mighty big lifting by the ECB (or the bundesbank as was). The ECB (European Central Bank) have spent billions of Euro’s propping up the Euro, well actually shoring up Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain (PIGS) and still it goes on.
    Ironically, there is, even with the ‘common currency’ a growing apartheid or difference in type of Euros passed. If you try to pass Greek or Spanish, Portuguese or Irish printed Euros in a German shop or bar, they (in all likelihood) will be refused and only Deutsch/Benelux/Austrian Euros will be accepted.

    The Euro as I have said is the (wet) dream of the EU federalists.
    Without economic union, there will be no political union, therefore the end of the Euro and an end to the big banks play-zone and money tree. Thus, that is why they desperately shore-up the Euro – banks in tandem with the commission.

    The other great financial string to the bow of the big Euro banks is carbon trading, ie, emissions of CO2 bought and sold on the European carbon exchange.
    Now I would try to explain the CO2 emissions scheme, I do not possess the mental capacity to really explain how fresh air is given a price and then sold on to others. So that, in ‘third world land’, someone can start driving a brand new top of the range personalised Mercedes and also become interested in property portfolios in St Tropez and Mayfair – tis a miracle! It’;s a miracle but defeats my logical (too logical maybe) brain processes.

    But to some, carbon trading has become a massive business opportunity, the Euro banks love it too….wonder why? Why? Because it is a licence to print money, big dollars for their bonuses and big dollars for ….err yes you’ve guessed it! The EU! NO Sh$t!

    So all you realists, know your real enemy.
    And so to Cancun, Pointy is correct, the AGW is dying on it’s feet but there is one thing that is not much mentioned and I think this is the single most important facet of all in Cancun.

    All the above is largely predicated on one thing, the EU getting their way on AGW and AGW it’s promulgation thereof, it is intertwined with the big Euro Banks, and it is all to do with ‘filthy lucre’.

    But!…………….The AGW lunacy (and EU madness too can be given a sharp jolt) can be ended.

    A coup de grace can be administered in Cancun, with the EU in trouble in Europe and the banks over extended, if the final nail was hammered into the coffin, then we would be most definitely on the road to victory.

    That final nail, is the Kyoto protocol, it is due to end in 2013, without a renewal of this treaty, the carbon trading fresh air trading and a millstone around the necks of every western nation taxpayer would be lifted, but one of the corner-stones of the EU and it’s bankers would also be erased.
    Quickly, the Kyoto treaty is all based on CO2 emissions, these emissions (dubiously – that’s another argument) are measured and a cap is agreed per country – an ’emissions target’. So a big ‘polluting’ industry can ‘buy’ carbon credits, ie, go on ‘polluting’ (pumping gas into the atmosphere) by (for example) by buying into ‘Green Industries’ in India or by planting Mangrove trees in Bangladesh or summat (it really is that bonkers!!!!!!).

    The big (Euro banks particularly Deutsche Bank etc) banks act as brokers, advisers and by lending money etc to big western Industrial concerns and the EU tax them and everybody makes a killing except the taxpayer who pays through the nose, because unit costs (the bottom line) obviously have to rise.
    Another example of how insane this trade is, can be found in China, which produces CFCs, Mr. Booker had a great post on this madness here:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7969102/The-Clean-Development-Mechanism-delivers-the-greatest-green-scam-of-all.html

    The big problem is, now, at Cancun: the UN and the EU working hard to re-sign another Carbon Trading agreement. IMHO, this is the main battle.

    It is crucial that, at Cancun, we make every effort to try and ensure the Kyoto protocol/treaty is placed in a stone sarcophagus and (with no honours) shipped and sunk, beneath the ‘Mexican Waves’.

  14. Hello Ed and welcome to the blog. As usual, a substantive post from your good self. Locust’s third translation from Low Carbon Plot sets out the three power blocks involved in the Cancun conference; the Americas, Europe and the Developing Nations. The latter have absolutely no enthusiasm for any agreement and with the seismic change in American politics of late, neither have the Americas. That leaves the European block completely isolated and although they’ll try and come back with some sort of fig leaf from the conference, no substantive agreements will have been reached.

    Unilateral Carbon reduction measures by the lowest polluter of the three blocks, in the context of AGW, is obviously pointless and ineffective. The know this of course but it will not stop them, because the real motivation will be to increase the taxation yield in order to reduce their national debts.

    Pointman

    • The big players like China and Brazil are not interested in emissions targets, they are interested in Taxpayer dollars from Europe + the USA, the South Americans and Africans scream for more ‘investment’ in sustainable projects, we all know this is cant and bluster.

      This sort of mass gathering UN conference wants attacking and stopping this time. Because when they have a shindig, there is a mass hysteria mind-f£$k going on, all the Chicken Little’s and greenies together all screaming, “the sky is falling in!”
      Which makes it easier to browbeat delegates who came with cold feet, about AGW and new emissivity targets,
      China, being the wise old head plays both ends against the middle, for she is neither a developed industrial nation, nor is she an undeveloped nation (strictly speaking + we all know, China is so fond of claiming to be the oldest civilisation on Earth/Universe), she wants it all. Carbon credits from the west and to be allowed to build lots more ‘dirty’ coal fired power stations as underdeveloped nation = clever, very clever.

      So too with the Brazilians, great hypocrites are the Brazilians also, they allow the big ranch owners (who are the power in the land of Brazil) yearly to cut down swathes of virgin forest, whilst screaming for more help from the UN and the west to help: “save the Amazon!”

      Once again!! The Cancun beanfeast, is not about saving the planet!

      Oh NO!……………..It is a cynical exercise in screwing as many taxpayer dollars they (the UN) can out of the west. Time and time again, because of our dopey and gullible twats we call politicians, we the taxpayer have been royally shafted in the rear – it is time to call a stop and there is no time like the present, to finally do shoot this (UN) turkey dead.

    • G’day Pointman

      Went to your link and found……”The article you are looking for does not exist. It may have been deleted”.

      Your really interesting thread is becoming more and moreso….great job Pointy.

  15. Hey Pointman, the man! Splendid post sir!

    Comment just posted over at Dellers article for the Express…certainly worth repeating here…

    CLIMATE CHANGE IS ONE PIECE OF A PUZZLE THAT, WHEN ASSEMBLED, FORMS A SINGULARITY
    19.11.10, 1:42pm

    Delingpole wrote…”What our political class hasn’t yet realised is that Climategate was just the beginning. Each day new evidence emerges of the junk science of the global warming lobby; and with each new opinion poll, public scepticism rises.”
    ——————————————-

    Mr. Delingpole,

    First of all, I’m on your side.

    Everything you write is correct, but only a relatively small part of the real problem. Our handicap (yours, mine, everyone with any sense) is that we’re perpetually too far behind the curve (even though you’re far ahead of other journalists). The fact that the public is catching on doesn’t mean they’re catching up. Because these UN-EU programs run years in advance, time expended opposing nefarious science motives means that we end up ALWAYS too late to stop the action.

    The things that are happening now were decided and implemented years ago, and the things that are being decided and implemented now will not be apparant to the public for some years. Hannan has blogged about this phenomena, he called it something like the ‘already done’ effect, noting other MEPs saying things like: ‘Oh, that was decided years ago’.

    It’s a fact that Hannan is correct about the too-late obstacle, the reason is that what appears as the environmental agenda is actually just the propaganda program, and what appears as the objective is actually just the propulsion mechanism to advance a bigger agenda. By the time we’re onto the propaganda, the agenda is implemented, embedded, and running down the road.

    The purpose of the Sustainable Development propaganda program (Agenda 21 and LA-2, etc), and the AWG/Climate Change mechanism is to set the stage for the UN-EU interim objective: gain control over private land. Control over private land is a huge component of implementing their overall objective: worldwide, Regionally administered government (see the UN’s Center for Regional Integration Studies).

    The opposite of the too-late obstacle is the whats-coming heads-up. One recent whats-coming recommendation is a policy proposal by an environmental ‘High Level Advisory’ group titled: Land Use Futures: Making the Most of Land in the 21st Century (reverse-engineered as usual, with recommendations predetermined by ideology), commissioned by the same people running these agendas. If from reading this document you glean a conceptual understanding that what it says is: “We intend to use the pretext of sustainability to incrementally impose more and more restrictive land-use laws** and use green-propaganda to impose more and more taxes on land until very few people are able to own private homes (and are forced to move into energy efficient highrises)”, you’ll then be running alongside the what-coming curve, and able to warn about the outcome & objective of what’s just beginning to be implemented right now.

    The interim objective: Destroy national identity by dilution. The UN-EU wants to accelerate the number of 3rd world people in Europe. They’ve engineered a catagory of political refugee: Environmental. A new form of ‘food security’ asylum will be granted to those fleeing what they’ll declare to be a non-sustainable, degragated environment. Soon, you’ll hear the UN-EU turn up the volume on their old, familiar propaganda, but with a new twist: ‘their land has become unsustainable because of the actions of people in the 1st world, so the 1st world must share their land’. The interim objective is to break the traditional bonds between European people, their history, and their lands. They need a way to do that, and dilution is their mechanism. No historic land = no identity/alliances = nothing/noone to fight for/with = little/no resistance to worldwide, regional govt (note the UN CRIS publications on how they created new identities for us, and how they monitor our acceptace/rejection of our new identities).

    We’re all standing at the bottom of a mountain of green (and other) propaganda, flailing about, trying to attack the science that’s ostensibly at the top. This is unnecessary because the political agenda is the head of the snake that manufactures and manipulates the science, not the other way around.

    Delingpole, change tactic. Start at the top, with the relevant original green political agenda–the1990s Rio Conference. Read the tedious, cryptic UN policy documents of the ‘High Advisory’ committee’s and workgroups that actually first documented those agendas. You’ll be shocked at first, but then will come clarity because they do continually state, in the typical, muddled language of the left, what’s going to happen to us next (usually in the form of official recommendations from politically aligned ‘experts’). You’ll see that through the years since then, everything they said was going to happen did happen, and know with certainty that it happened because they engineered it.

    What’s going on at the top is opaque, but it isn’t completely concealed. Proceed down the mountain of policy docs that were written as the agenda rolled downhill and expanded outward (read only documents written by the offical working groups). Observe conceptually rather than literally, focused on their objective(s) rather than the green propaganda & AGW propulsion mechanisms.

    When you see the big picture come into focus, switch tactics. Forget the science, instead, note the direct correlation between their stated objective and the propaganda that then suddenly appears and supports it. Then, tell the public about how the green propaganda fits into the overall puzzle, and how they intend to use it to destroy our history, our nation, our traditions, our jobs, our homes, our solvency, our lands, and our future, to create a controlled, leftist utopian paradise with themselves forever at the helm.

    **wealthy landowners (called stakeholders in UN-EU lingo) are already privy to the future land-use restrictions that will soon be levied on land deemed not in compliance with sustainability requirements. Their heads-up enabled them to make a pre-emptive Hobbs choice. They decided that ugly windmills trump loss of land-use rights, and decided to pre-comply while ‘sustainability-compliant’ windmill farms are still being subsidized.

    Sammie

    • Posted by: SammieHall • Report Comment

    • Wow, Scud

      You sure can see the Big Picture. Thanks for posting Sammie Hall’s brilliant narrative that paints that Picture in such stark clarity.

      Anyone who has seen my comments elsewhere may remember that the UN’s Agenda 21 has been of particular concern to me since hundreds of Australian farmers have been deprived of the lawful use of their land under these Sustainability provisions, in breach of our Constitution and without compensation.

      Their properties have been declared Carbon Sinks and pastures cannot be kept clear of forest regrowth. Thousands of acres of prime agricultural land have disappeared under plantation forests as native forest logging and replanting is progressively banned.

      Any objections are subsumed under the “Too late – It’s a Done Deal” rhetoric Sammie cites so clearly.

      We need to move past (and fast) the clap-trap that the ‘science’ is the issue. It never was, it’s only a distraction.

      I saw Sammie’s warnings in the DT six months ago. When are we going to refuse to be distracted and address what’s really behind this entire Global Warming Fraud?

  16. It’s disturbing to find in to-day’s Daily Telegraph that they have joined forces with Shell in a whole page ‘advertorial’ to push their CAGW agenda , or as their globe-trotting environment correspondent Geoffrey Lean calls it, ‘the devastating effects of climate change”.
    Greg Barker ,Minister for Energy and Climate Change, has a piece entitled ‘Let’s make Cancun a step forward’ and Andrew Cave (Shell?) tells us about the great future for ‘locally developed biofuels, wind and thermal solar energy.’
    My disappointment that the Telegraph are so committed to this ‘green’ nonsense, is coupled with the proof , if anyone needed it, that ‘big-oil’ is thedriving force behind the whole ‘warmist’ agenda, and is in no way funding the ‘sceptical’ viewpoint.
    Climate Secretary Chris Huhne can be seen in a ‘Shell’ video explaining his ‘thinking’ on – telegraph.co.uk/ageofenergy

  17. A fascinating leaked recording. The meeting in Copenhagen when the Chinese acting for themselves and as the spokesman for the developing nations, signalled to Obama, Merkel, Brown and Sarkozy that they would not be ‘bounced’ into agreeing anything. This was the exact moment that broke the back of the Copenhagen negotiations.

    Pointman

  18. hi I was luck to search your topic in google
    your topic is brilliant
    I learn much in your theme really thanks very much
    btw the theme of you website is really splendid
    where can find it

    • Bet365

      Are you stupid or ignorant?
      Or perhaps you are just an advertising spambot?
      Your question has been answered several times already.
      Do you ever read replies to your repeated questions?

      NoIdea

    • Bet 365

      I’m very happy that Our Man In Sichuan was displayed in the search results for google, yahoo and bing. No matter how polite or innocuous your recurring comment appears to be, it is still spam. Good-bye.

      Chairman Locusts

  19. A deal has been reached at Cancun.

    A commitment to deeply cut carbon emissions with no target levels set for individual nations.
    A green climate fund has been formed to help developing nations.
    Technology transfer has been agreed on.
    Massive expansion of carbon markets is called for.

    Just how bad is this?

    NoIdea

    • I think that it is no more than an agreement to try, on the next occasion for trying to reach agreement, to try very hard to try an reach an agreement. More trying is needed, clearly.

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